Author Topic: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs  (Read 2729 times)

Seeker2000

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(Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« on: September 17, 2012, 06:05:31 pm »
Hi to everybody!

This here is actually my first post (although I've spoken with jules several times via PMs), so please, do not be to harsh on me, if I'm asking something, that has been already answered. 

Besides that, I'm in spite of the fact, that I try to learn as much as I can about SOLAR WEATHER for about a year now, I'm a physician, not a physicist or said otherwise: almost a complete layman.

When 'doing' the task SPOT, I've noticed some 'peculiarities', especially in the last videos.

This is not simply unusual to me, but actually creates a technical issue. So to get to the point:

Sometimes whilst trying to mark an eruption of a CME, I've noticed, that some are to say at least 'different'.

With this I mean, that some CMEs, which appear, are ALMOST instantly (I did not check, but with that I mean a time-frame measured in tenths of a second - for example: 100 milliseconds to half a second) proceeded by a second CME.

So what I'm asking is:

1. Is this something usual or a 'phenomenon' which resembles what I would name (just guessing) 'a DOUBLE CME'?

2. Besides, I do not know, if those issuses are connected, but when I encountered such events the calculated speed of the storm was off the charts - 10 000 km/s+ (as opposed to average values of around 350 - 750 km/s);  ???

3. I'm aware, that most likely, the human factor (me) is responsible for such enormous (incorrect) value, but on the other hand I also noticed, that some CMEs in the video itself (without any calculation) seem to move three or four times faster as the 'usual' (and I'm talking about videos, which are continuous and are not missing any frames);

4. And when I mentioned the technical problem, I meant, when such an event is spotted, what time-frame should I mark for the beginning of the CME (one just appears and is immediately followed by another).  :-\

Thank You for the answers and I hope, the questions even make any sense (or that I've even posted in the right place)   :-[

Regards!

Denis   

jules

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Re: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 07:47:48 pm »
Hi Denis - nice to see you on the forum! :) I have seen storms appearing very close together if that is what you mean. Did you save an example to your favourites by any chance? It always helps if we can take a look at the video. 10,000 km/s is off the scale! :o

Seeker2000

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Re: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 08:28:15 pm »
I guess, I've 'gathered too much favourites in so short time span.  :)

But nevertheless, out of the 'mess' I've picked something SIMILAR as I described in the post. It is not exactly the same, what I've described, but close enough, to give you an idea, what I've meant. You can find it under:

http://www.solarstormwatch.com/favourites/6794

Focus on the frames from 43s+ on.

Surely the second CME follows later as I described, but close enough that it got my attention to put it into my favourites. But if you ask me, is this the same video, that prompted me into writing the message, the answer would be: 'Probably no.'

But to pick out the one that resembles my description CLOSEST is a bit hard, as I got dozens of videos in my favourites. Even-though I hope, you'll find this one also interesting enough.

Denis

P.S.

After looking through favourites a little more, I find also this video interesting:

http://www.solarstormwatch.com/favourites/6751

...especially regarding the (technical) difficulties in multiple CMEs which occur in succession in so short time span. It may just be me, but in such cases my level of precision (regarding the marking of the start and when a storm reaches a certain level) drops dramatically and may even lead to calculated velocity numbers, which are off the scale.

P.P.S.

And another video, where it is even 'tough' (at least to me) to predict or correctly mark, 'What is what?!':

http://www.solarstormwatch.com/favourites/6772
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 01:08:06 pm by Seeker2000 »

srcrothers

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Re: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 10:32:05 am »
Hi Denis,

Yes from the science side it can be pretty much impossible to sort things out using just the videos and as the sun gets more active it becomes even more challenging.  However the speed estimates that come from the video data are only really indicative rather than definitive, what we really want from the "spot" task is to identify launch times of CME's so that we can use that further in "trace-it".  One of the problems in trace-it are there are other phenomena that give tracks that if we tried to fit as CME's would not give us an answer we were looking for.

If there are two CME's launched very close together you need not be too concerned since there is a time window on the trace-it that will cover both events anyway.

On the 14/15 August 2010 there were a whole sequence of CME's in quick succession that engaged scientists around the world to try to understand the full sequence of events.

Thanks for helping

Steve

Seeker2000

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Re: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 02:05:05 pm »
Hi!

Thank You for Your kind response and explanation, because I was really a little 'confused' after marking those multiple storms in ONE video and received for example 3 'normal' velocity results (arond 350 - 550 km/s) and as jules already pointed out 1 OFF the SCALE namely 10 000 km/s+.  :-[

To sum it up, I have really one important question left:

What can I do, to contribute as much as possible or be of some use to the project?

With that I mean:

On which task(s) should I focus primarily to help?

You already pointed out 'TRACE IT' and this task (as I understand) does only focus on events that already happened (a kind of 'post-processing' analysis).

If that is so, it does not bother me, I just wish to help as much as I can (no matter if this for the time being excludes 'near real time' events)  :)

Regards and keep up the excellent work.

Denis

ElisabethB

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Re: (Almost) SIMULTANEOUS occurrences of CMEs
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 08:59:28 pm »
Hi Denis,
For the moment, Trace it is the place to be. These classifications are the most valuable right now.
But I like to do some What's That or Incoming for fun ! ;-), (but that is just me)
Happy Hunting !